From Dead Inside to Abundant Life: Joshua Horwitz’s Testimony

For the first time ever, Maria interviews her husband, Joshua Horwitz, as he shares his powerful testimony — from growing up agnostic and feeling dead inside, to accepting Yeshua as Messiah and discovering true life in God.

In this heartfelt conversation, Joshua opens up about his faith journey, the baggage he had to release, the healing God brought into his heart, and the fulfillment he now finds in marriage, fatherhood, business, and living for the glory of God.

This episode is a beautiful reminder that Jesus does not just improve our lives — He gives us life. Joshua’s story is one of surrender, transformation, abundant life, and what it truly means to live your Blessed Life Ever.

A special thank you to the Best Home Ever Team for sponsoring Spark. To learn more or get involved, text or call Maria at (561) 779-9452.

Transcript

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Good morning. Today we are joined by a very special person. This man is not only my most favorite person in the world, but he is my husband, Josh Horowitz. Welcome to the show. Hello, hello. Good morning, my love. So I think we should start where we met, and that can lead into your personal story. Yeah, so we met at oh well, actually, we didn't meet when I first saw you, but we met at our office. And the first time I saw you though was at a uh Keller Williams uh luxury event at Breakers West, and there was windows looking outside, and uh you were walking by and I was like, who's that? Yeah, like this confident walk, and uh like a majestic creature going by. And uh yeah, and then I saw you the next day at the office, you signed up, and slowly but surely we got to know each other because you were dating somebody at the time, so I was kind of disappointed about that. But I waited and I was patient, and um, yeah, and so that's kind of briefly how we met. Yes, and how would you describe at that moment your your spiritual life and your faith walk during that time? Um was pretty much non-existent at that point. Um, you know, after moving out of the house, I really didn't observe any of the high holidays. I was born and raised Jewish and Bar Mitzfud at uh Beth David in Gardens and um, you know, so I had a pretty deep um rooted heritage and experience in my Judaism, but um once I was out on my own, I just kind of succumbed to the world, so I didn't really go to you know even Passover or Yom Kippur or anything like that. And what was your experience with Jesus at that point? Well, most of my life, um kids are pretty just mean, you know, and um I was called like a Jesus killer, and um it was like taboo to even like say Jesus basically, you know, growing up and kind of I mean not for good reason but for explained reasons as to you know people kind of looked at Jews or um as Christ killers, and so it really kind of created resentment in my heart, um to where I just was basically like uh you know that's just something else that's like not even close to God, you know, because we were just raised there as one God. Right. So did you see Christians as quite hypocritical? Well, that was the one thing that I always really kind of struggled with, um, even then, and even still now too, is uh, you know, this you know, Judaism is monotheistic, and so when you start talking about um the Holy Trinity and and um you know separate God basically as one, it's that's kind of a little confusing. Um and almost kind of for a Jewish person, especially it's almost like polytheistic. It's you know, so that's where I think there's a big rub a lot of times for for Jewish people when they look at Christianity, because it's supposed to be like the same God, right? But then they call Jesus God, and so right. And it was it was a struggle for me too, because you know, I was raised Catholic and I wanted to be in a relationship with a Catholic. So when you and I came together with from very different backgrounds, it was there was some uh there was some um, what's it called, pains? Some rubs. Some rubs. Yeah, and I remember in an early conversation with you, I asked you, what would it take for you to believe in Jesus? Yeah. And uh my sarcastic self was like, he'd have to come down here, slap me upside the head, say, hey man, it's me. And I just nodded. I'm like, okay, that can totally happen. And you heard him, God. You're up for the challenge. God likes to be challenged, you know. So if a Jew's challenging God about his son, he's gonna show up. Well, he's got the biggest sense of humor, too. Oh, he does have the big sense of humor. So not too long after we we book our first trip together to Israel, you had already been two other times. Yeah. And talk us talk us through what happened in Israel. Um our time that we went? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So um a little bit, a brief, brief backstory is um my father was dealing with some challenges in life and his addictions, and so the day I was born, he wrote a letter to me. And um basically the letter was deeply heartfelt, and um he went into rehab the day after I was born, and so he didn't give me this letter until I was about 21 when a friend of mine um got into some trouble. And my father was worried about me kind of going down that path, so he gave me the letter to kind of show him that hey, you know, I've dealt with this, you know, keep your eyes out, and you mean the world to me. You know, you changed my life forever when you were born. And so it's every time I read that letter, I mean I just bawl, like I can barely read one sentence without crying, just how heartfelt it was. And um get choked up now just thinking about it. So um at one point before the trip, God had put it on my heart to take this letter and to um and to bring it and put it into the wailing wall. Um, because you know, not only was it heartfelt, but there's also a lot of pain I could see um that my father wrote in there, you know, obviously from the addictions that he's battling. And so he's sober now. I mean, he's been clean for a long time. But um, you know, I obviously was trying times back then in the 80s down in Miami. So we take the letter and uh we're reading it right outside the wailing wall, and Maria's recording it for me, so we have it, and we still have it somewhere, right? And and then I go down into the uh the men's section because it's obviously divided, the men and the women's side. Um, which by the way is not a sexist thing, it's so that man can be with God and not be distracted by his beautiful wife, is the reason they do that, by the way. It's not because oh, men are better than women or women are better than men. Never thought that. No, I I'm putting that in there for the crowd, for the audience, you know, not for you. Um and so go down in there and um I grab a uh C to orb, which is a Jewish Bible, and um I'm just reading um reading Genesis, and um like alright, I read enough chapters of Genesis going through creation and man and his word, and it was just perfect how God just led me down this whole path because I'm about to put a letter into the wall. So just very befitting that um you know God spoke creation into existence. And I'm looking around, I fold up the letter even more, and I find a spot real high up that I can kind of push it into where most people won't be able to really kind of reach or try to reach, they'll be looking for other spots, you know, more convenient. And um and then I lean my head against the wall, my arms are up, and I'm close my eyes, and I'm praying now. And uh praying that um, you know, that this letter, that God, you know, release my father from all this pain and the traumas that are around this, and and for him to forgive himself more than anything, you know, to move forward, that he did a good job as a father, and and just a beautiful prayer. And as I was right after I had done that, um, there's now a faith speaking to me. And I can't make out what it's saying, but it looks a lot like Jesus would look as we know today. Um because we don't really know what Jesus looked like, we have an idea, but it's all just our creation, right? So of course he would come in that image. And um afterwards I go and I tell Maria a bit, but I don't tell her it's Jesus, I tell her it was like, oh, just play it off, my sarcastic self. Like, oh, it could have been Abraham or Abraham or Moses, or you know. And I said, they don't want to talk to you, Jesus wants to talk to you. Well, hey, they might. But uh, yeah, I mean, in any, I was just being, you know, my goofy self and just hard-headed, you know, stiff-necked. And um, but deep down I I knew it's Jesus. And which is funny because even still how blind I was then, he came down, slapped me upside the head, and said, Hey, it's me, and I still didn't take it yet. It still took me some convincing, but it was a good start. You know, because I've never really experienced anything like that before. I've experienced like um, I guess you could say, like a spiritual encounter, just different ways. Like almost, I mean, I've there's been many times in life where you know I would could have easily have died, and be it a car accident or um just doing various stupid things with my uh drunken escapades in life, let's just say. So that's beautiful. And then you and I we were we were wanting to get married, but um my dad put up a a stink about it because you didn't believe in Jesus and you had tattoos. So those were his two big reasons for not wanting us to get married. So after a three-hour lecture with him on all the reasons why I shouldn't get married to you, you and your graciousness came back to the house to pick me up because you had left. That was, yeah, I remember. I was in the driveway, and then and what was supposed to be only like 10-15 minutes um turned into like what two and a half, almost three hours. And so I'm in the driveway scrolling, Instagram, Facebook, whatever. Um John, but before that, sorry, John comes, he's like, Yeah, I need to talk to my daughter for like 10-15 minutes, she'll be right out. So I'm like, all right. Um I kind of knew a little bit that it was gonna be longer than that, just because John is very long-winded, let's just say. And so um I was like, all right, well, whatever, I'll just hang out here because I'll figure out how long it's gonna be in a minute. And um two and a half to three hours later, I call you crying and asking. Well, yeah, I didn't know what I was gonna say about all that was you know, I I wanted to do a little bit of build-up here. So I'm there, it's 15 minutes go by. I text Maria, I call her a few times, no answer. Because I'm like, all right, well, at this point, are you coming back out? Are you guys done? I didn't want to just go into the house and interrupt, and and you know, because John's very particular about certain things, and I didn't want to disrespect him that way. So I was trying to show a level of decorum and just give him his space to talk to you, um, you know, as a as a father and a daughter. Um, so I just kept calling and texting, and then hours, two hours go by. I'm like, geez, Louise, now I'm getting really upset. So finally, at about the two hours, 30 minutes, I'm like, F this, I'm out of here, I'm done with this crap. She doesn't respect me enough to call or text. I was mad, I was done. I was gonna break up with her. And so I'm heading home. Well, this is what I'm telling myself, you know, just anger. You know, we say a lot of things when we're angry that we don't mean, by the way. I'm sure nobody else can relate out there. And so I'm driving all the way to Lost Tree Village, 30 minutes away. I get right into the driveway, and Maria calls me, just bawling her eyes out. I have never heard her cry so hard in my life. And uh it like immediately broke my heart and also really pissed me off because I'm like, what did this guy do? What did he say? She can't even tell me. Um, just ugly crying. And um, yeah, so then you were like, he doesn't want us to be together because you have tattoos and you don't believe in Jesus, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, then I start, you know, cursing, and I'm just like, who is he to judge anybody? Like, he's a sinner just like anybody else, and like, you know, who is he to sit there and try to judge me over this stuff? And so I finally calm down, I turn back around, drive all the way back to Steeplechase and pick you up, and we drive all the way back home. And we have a conversation that changes the trajectory of our lives. Yeah, so now we're in the at this time in our lives, we would usually park and um sit there in the car and talk about our day or any grievances we might have before going into the house, which is actually kind of a cool practice, but we haven't done that in a long time. Um, just kind of talk about things before getting in the house, you know. And so obviously after now we have three children yelling at a stepping parking car, so it's not really a relaxing situation. It's no, it's just different, you know, it's just funny. And so um after calming down, letting all the fire get out um and settle down. Um I said, Well, look, I don't even know what your father believes, quite frankly. Um, I don't know much about Christianity to begin with, so I'll go down this journey with you. Um I'll research it, I'll learn about it. I can't make any promises, but you know, we'll see where it goes. And on my part, I said I can get off my Catholic high horse, and we can read the entire Bible together three chapters a day, and we can make our own our own conclusions out of it. We don't have to adopt what other people decided for us was the right way to believe. Right. Yeah, because I mean man has their has a stink all over a lot of things around God. Um, so you need very strong discernment and the word to be able to filter out all the noise to get to what really God's trying to tell us. Yes, so we start with one chapter of the New Testament, one chapter of the Old Testament, one chapter from the book of Psalms. So, of course, we started with Matthew, Genesis, and Psalms, and through that practice of reading three chapters a day, a lot of things came to light. And then one day we were in Calvary Church and we were hearing the word, and Josh had an experience that he'll share with us now. Yeah, so it's actually during the um the worship um right before service started, actually, uh just reading the words um on the screen and and the music. I always just, you know, sometimes I'll sing, sometimes I won't, but at that time I was still a little too like rigid to really like start singing um worship songs at church. And boom, all of a sudden it hits me like a lightning bolt, like a little download were a big revelation to me, was what Jesus was telling me. And um a little backstory for that, after that time in Israel, it was about eight months since then, and so I had been really trying to search and pray and discover what Jesus was trying to tell me into a few different men's groups and just prayer and and meditation, and he didn't come back to me and tell me until boom, that moment. And so it was like boom, just like a wow, like an aha and um type of feeling. And it was very simple. That my mission is to connect Jews and I'll call it Gentiles together to follow Jesus, you know, and to follow what Jesus did and preached, right? And to be like for us to come together as one. Um because a lot of modern-day church andity just um people twist things. They try, you know, look, it's it's not because it's wrong, or I don't say not wrong, but it's not because people are trying to be ill-willed, they're trying to discover, right, which is good. Um, we just need to make sure that we're following what Jesus preached and what God would want us to do, right? Um, and so that's really the way you have to look at it is like, what did God talk about in the Old Testament? Okay, that's a filter in which you go into the New Testament with, along with Jesus, that preaches the same thing. So when you have those two lined up as eyeglasses for the world and through scripture, you're able to then see things like you're bringing up now. For instance, you know, the Sabbath. God says to observe the Sabbath forever and ever, not just until the Messiah comes, and Jesus talks about, you know. Right. And after that experience with hearing the voice of God at church, then what happened then? We went back to Israel the following year, and I had asked you many times, when would you like to get baptized? And every time there was an opportunity at church to get baptized in the little pool in the front yard. Sorry, our newest born Eliana is waking up. I'll let you um I'll let you talk about your experience getting baptized in Israel. Right, and it's no offense to churches or people that have been baptized in the little pools, it just wasn't appealing to me. Um, I don't know if it's my um Jewish roots or whatnot, but you know, a mikveh is supposed to be like living water and flowing water and stuff like that, like in an ocean or something of that magnitude. So it just never appealed to me to be baptized in a little pool. So I was always just really hesitant to do that. But now we're going to Israel, and I'm like, well, if I'm gonna get baptized, I'm gonna get baptized in the same place Jesus did in the Jordan River. And so yeah. And tell us what that was like to get baptized in the Jordan. So where we got baptized, I don't know for sure if that's where Jesus was officially baptized. There's another spot that is a let that might be um a better representation of where he was. But the place we went to is pretty cool. I mean, they got a huge building there and a whole process you go through and you get a little robe and um they walk you down. And so we went with the group, we went with uh Sam, uh Kevin and Sam Sorbo on a little um trip they put together, which is really cool. We got to meet some really nice people, and um, so we went there, and so Kevin Sorbo and uh Toby, a good buddy, I actually need to reach out to him, see how he's doing. Um, they baptized me. And uh while Maria is getting milk ready for Eliana, so she can be all happy again. Um I then baptized what Genesee and uh and then I think did you go again, I think, after that or something? Yes. And what differences did you notice before you were baptized and then after you were baptized and and life since then? Well, there's always I mean, ever since I mean, you know, the baptism for me was like a declaration, right? It was very I guess I should also add this as a Jew, I mean now if you once you get like baptized, like you know, it's like in the name of Jesus, then you're like uh that's like a that's a huge hurdle to jump over, right? And so um I had collected a lot of peace throughout this whole time, and and I've read many books um learning about you know Jesus, the gospel, the Hebrew book of Matthew, the case for Christ, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything they're saying in there. The premise was good, you know, especially when it came to the uh witness accounts of the disciples and um and putting some perspective on things that I didn't even really catch until you know reading it. Um like women, you know, that um they actually talked about women witnessing um Jesus and and being in some of the witness accounts because usually back then in those days um they wouldn't account for women to be you know a an authority or a witness. So that was kind of cool. Right. And so since your whole coming to Jesus or Yeshua as you lovingly call him, because that's his real name. Yeah, Yeshua. So what when you went back to your father and um stepmother, who are you know very very observant Jews, what was their reaction when um they saw that you got baptized and you had such a testimony to share? Yeah, no. Well, and yeah, just circle back real quick. I I know I was a little monologuing, but the experience of m um being baptized was kind of like that like moment. It's like um a peace comes over you. Um you've now made a declaration in life. And and it's a it's a brief piece because then after that you are now under it. Uh by not just the world, but then also the devil. Yeah. So that'll be a different podcast. But the interesting thing is, you know, when I asked you, this was some years ago before we started this whole journey. Um, like I remember a conversation in the car, because that's where a lot of our conversations happened. Um, we were just talking about like our state of mind, and you said something very interesting that stuck with me for years now. You said, I feel dead inside. And yes, you are getting attacked ever since you made the public declaration and Yeshua as your messiah, but what were your attacks before you started this journey, which led to you feeling dead inside? Um, I mean, many. Um one of them that I just wasn't really present to um until much, much later in life was um um pornography. You know, it's um I think my first encounter was when I was uh like eight, seven, eight, or something like that. My parents owned a hotel called the Lake Park Inn, which was right next to where Earl Stuart Toyota is. Well, they bought the whole thing now, but it was like just down the street from where that location is, where the building is. And um we were in the lot went into the um office behind the the front desk and just going through and drawers and whatnot, we found a magazine and had some weird stuff in there. Um not like death or anything, but just like you know, weird kind of nudity. And so um, you know, fast forwarding through that in life, it was kind of it was like normalized, you know, like it wasn't that big of a deal, you know, and um, and then watching it with friends and getting older and in my 18, like teens and 20s, and it became so much more accessible, you know, able to just go to the store or online, and so um I can looking back now, I can see how it was deeply embedded in in me, where I would just look at you know pornography, you know, daily, not for like hours on hours on hours, but you know, it would be almost like a daily occurrence. And so um now we look back and it's like wow, it does so much damage to your brain and your your emotions and your life. Um and it's nothing against like look, guys, like this is I want to put this out there too. Like, this is this is kind of a touchy thing for people, okay? And I don't want to make, I don't want to shame people here. This is just now facts are coming out or the damage and the and the repercussions that come along uh pornography, right? Because it stimulates our brains, it messes with so many different factors in our life. And so I then started to really realize, you know, just how um I have always felt like dead inside and and and emotionless in a lot of ways. You know, I was always trying to search for love, but could never really feel love, right? It's like this weird, empty pursuit, right? Just because I was in this vicious circle of that and then alcohol and women. I mean, I lived in Vegas for five years, and you know, I'm definitely not proud of my past with my different relationships with women and so forth, and and we can get into that later in another podcast because we could be here for hours at that point. But um so I just had a lot of worldly uh addictions and stuff that really just kind of made me feel just dark and empty inside, and I never really knew why. Um but since now seeing that being able to rebuke that and follow more of a um we'll call it a biblical perspective of the world and and just learning like Jesus, you know, Matthew was Matthew 25. Is it Matthew 25? Yeah, where it's uh even just to lust after a woman um is adultery or on the Sermon on the Mount Mount on the Sermon on the Mount. Um, yes, speaking of which, you know, even the Bible says confess your sins before men, and you'll be, you know, free of them and you'll be forgiven. And I was so touched by your public confession, and I knew in my heart that this was going to be a turning point for you. So, can you walk us down what was the turning point for officially declaring that pornography will have no more power over you and what happened? I know it was a very personal, but um, if you're able to share. Um, yeah, I mean, I mean, I've already shared it publicly, right? But um let me just kind of think about the best way to answer it here. I mean, it was it was it's funny that how the devil tries to keep us down, right? He tries to keep us in the darkness, in secret, out of the light. And so there's always a light, I just always picture when I try to explain it to people, like you're in a dark room, right? And then there's like this flashlight beaming down that's emitting light into it, but you're in the darkness, and so we can walk towards that light, God, you know, and um and ways to live that are gonna release us from the darkness, where we can finally be free and warm in the light. But the devil likes to keep us in the shadows just around it, just barely out of reach. So, um, with that being said, um, it was able to really free me, and I was able to really see a path now where it was lit up by God and Him guiding me and really just softening and opening my heart to where I mean I feel so much emotion now. It was almost kind of hard to take in sometimes because you know, Maria will kind of bust on me a little bit sometimes, and I just cry with just such happiness and joy, you know, especially with my children, um, you know, when I was getting married. Um just so many milestones in life and being able to see such freedom and joy in life that I really just in some of the smallest things I always took for granted. And so sharing that story also allowed other people to see that it's okay. Um, they're not the only ones. Um, you know, where I I wrote in a book, um, Navigating Your Storm, United Men of Honor, and um many people have reached out to me since then and said how my story has impacted them. And um, you know, they dealt with the same kind of struggles, a similar story, and they totally really identify. It's it's helped them even, you know. So I know that this is not an easy subject to talk about or admit, but and it's it's not just about you, right? It's about helping others and and letting go of your ego to share these things, because in doing so, we're able to guide other people to that light in the room and to shine a path for them into a life of happiness and joy and relief instead of being in that darkness and that pain and that sorrow and that that loneliness. Exactly. And I was so impressed when you started just talking about it, like with men and your family and different groups and circles. And it's a topic that people are usually embarrassed to bring up, but you you shared it with courage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's I I get it, man. I I know it's probably not something you can totally identify with. Obviously, you've been impacted by that's the other thing, too. They say it's a victimless, a victimless uh crime or you know, addiction, but it's really not because again, it affects you spiritually, emotionally, physically, which then impacts your marriage or your relationships in a way that you may not even know or see. Um, but how it affects, you know, you know, your wife, like you're looking at other women that are nude and doing other various things with other men, and it's just kind of you know, when you think about that way, it's you know it's kind of weird. Like, no, I don't want to say weird, but right, it's just I can see how it really could affect women. And then also from uh from a sex trafficking and child human trafficking and stuff, it's now become, I mean, it's the what the leading crime, I think it is now, right? It's because you know, you make a drug, you sell it once it's used, but now with the human, I mean, they can use a human multiple times, and so now there's a huge human trafficking rings, and pornography is heavily linked to that because these predators they use uh pornography uh to show victims of what they want to do and and how it slowly I can see how it like my stuff was kind of innocent and soft at first, and then it just started getting harder and harder core, you know. And so that's kind of how it does, it just gradually guides you way off of a path, you know, just little by little. So, yeah, it could be innocent little stuff now, but if you're not careful, you're gonna slip on the ice and slide right off. Like, for instance, my outside of when I was 11 and they had the sex ed, which that should not come from a stranger in your classroom, which opens the door for so many other things for young kids to talk about. It should definitely come from the parents. But uh, besides that, my only experience with the whole pornography thing was during years of my relationship, and a friend of mine said, I really gotta watch 50 shades of gray. And I was like, no. But then I got interested, and then I watched it, then I watched the next one, then I watched the next one, and it just took me to a place like I did not need to be mentally, spiritually, emotionally. And um I remember just like confessing it to God, and I was gonna be done with that forever, but then it wasn't until I caught you that as soon as I caught you, God put a mirror up to my face and said, Before you go condemning him, you got to confess what you just went through because you know exactly what he feels because you just felt those same sensations. So I confess that to you, and then that led us on a path of purity. Yeah, and we did a 93-day purity fast leading up to our beautiful marriage, which was on February 20th, 2021, at the beautiful outdoor venue in Davy called Living Sculpture Sanctuary, surrounded by our family and friends. And while the rest of the world was canceling their weddings during COVID, you and I got engaged, planned our wedding, and had our wedding during COVID. Well, yeah, that was funny. That was like a we did things completely uh countercultural. Yeah. I mean, we had our engagement rings before we even got engaged, uh, or wedding rings, I should say. We had our venue picked out before we were even engaged. Um, and what our florist and caterer and everything. Well, however, the world does it, we kind of just go the opposite. Yeah, we do our own thing. Yep. So after we got married, we went on a marriage retreat at the Glen Erie Castle in Colorado. And this was another layer of healing for us. And we were surrounded by beautiful mountains next to the Garden of the Gods, and there was a time for prayer and reflection when you and I went off to do our own thing, and you had a beautiful encounter. Oh, we have our two-year-old little boy running up to Josh, throwing a pillow at him and uh being loving. He's so sweet. Josh, will you share what happened at that retreat and why it was so impactful for you? Man, that place is amazing. That place is so cool. So, um, yeah, the Glennary Castle, if you guys don't know what it is or where it is, it's in Colorado Springs. Uh, it was a mansion that was built and recreated to look like um, you know, a thousand-plus-year-old castle. Um, but it's only really over a hundred years old or so. It was built by a railroad tycoon, and uh he took bits and pieces from over in Europe and recreated things to make this really beautiful house that looks like a castle, and but it still has running water and elevators and electric and um air conditioning. Um, so it's a really cool place to go visit, right in the middle of the mountains, right? I mean, it's right next to Garden of the Gods, so it's a really cool spot. And um Ray and I went through this really cool marriage retreat there um by the navigators and um went on some hikes. We went shh you okay, buddy? You're okay, buddy. And uh sorry about that. And um, you okay, bubba? Yeah, you're alright, buddy. So um to kind of set it off the tone, Marie and I went on this really cool hike uh that just continued to go on for a couple miles, probably. I think I was in my flip-flops or something, and uh we didn't really expect to go as far as we did. And we made up to some summit. They're like we're passing like uh mountain goats, and we're just super high up. And um there was like this random sitting little log to sit on, and then like this stone, almost like um you know, Native Americans, or I think even Aztec or different places in um where there's like stones that people pile up and stack. And so there was uh a pile like that up there. And I don't know, God put on my heart, we found a piece, we broke it. So there's my piece, her piece, and then God's piece. And so that was really cool, like introduction to like how spiritual this retreat was gonna be. And um, you know, because as a man, I'm always like really hesitant to do that kind of stuff in my mind. It'll be like foo foo, you know, like oh, that's kind of lame, you know, talk about feelings and you know, sit in a room and little did you know how many feelings you had to release. Because here we are, only three months after the marriage, and Josh is like upset or like um you're concerned that I'm not pregnant already. Well, yeah, I was gonna get to that. So um what's the best way to really kind of so yeah, I mean, in my past, um I'll get to that in a second, right? So I thought God was maybe punishing me because it's been like four or five months now, and Brian is not pregnant, and I'm just like, what's going on here? You know. Um so there was a section um in this retreat where they have everybody break off to do some kind of um self-reflection and meditation and prayer. And um, so everybody breaks off, and I'm looking around, I'm trying to find a cool spot. I sit at a little bench right outside the room and didn't feel comfortable right there, and then I'm walking down, I'm hiking, not really hiking, but walking down the street to find another cool spot farther away from the the hotel, the castle, sit down, feel awkward, and as I'm walking back, there's a little tiny sign that's maybe like six inches by six inches that I'd walked by and drove by probably multiple times and never seen. And it said little rose garden. I was like, well, that sounds kind of cool. Let me go over there, and so I walk, it's maybe a quarter mile, not even away from the street, and um maybe a tenth mile. I get up this really pretty gate, and there's these roses, like all different colors, red, yellow, purple, blue. I mean, just amazing white. And there's a sweet older lady in there, and she's just working on it, and I was like, Hey, do you mind if I come in here and and do my meditation or prayer or something? She's like, Yeah, no, come on in, make yourself comfortable. I was like, all right, cool. And so then I felt comfortable finally. It's like God was like guiding me, obviously. You know, he's just like, no, you don't want to be here, like kind of nudging me along the bumpers in a bowling alley, you know. And um so I sit down, I'm praying, and and just reflecting on some of the literature they gave us, and I start writing, and um, and then boom, God's just like I start writing about um how I had two abortions, and um that I can't wait to see my children one day in heaven, and um, you know, asking for prayer and forgiveness, and um God's like, I've already forgiven you, but have you forgiven yourself? And I'm just like bawling, crying. And um, yeah, those were um some pretty trying times in my life because back in those days when those abortions occurred, um the first one was in a very, very awkward relationship where a woman was separated, uh, or at least told me she was separated. I kind of question that honestly today, but I've believed it and I thought I loved her. Like she just um we just kind of came together. I was out in Vegas, and um it was a very, very abusive, toxic relationship, though. Um she was dealing with her own demons, and um she would get very physically abusive towards me, or even emotionally abusive in ways, and like you know, leave me stranded somewhere or kick me out of a hotel room and then call me and bring me back, and just um fast forward though, she she got pregnant, and um she had said to me in early in the relationship how she had a dream about when she was a young girl that she um had a dream about that she had a Joshua and a David twin boys, and so at nine years old that she shows me this painting, this picture. So I'm like, all right, we're like this is like uh this person I'm supposed to be with, and maybe you're just kind of working through some things here. And so when she got pregnant and um potentially with twins, I was really sucked in by that. And so she was like, But she you're not gonna be, you're not gonna, you can't be a good dad. You're not ready to be a father. And so she had an abortion, and I tried to tell her not to. But she's like, oh, they're you know, 20 weeks, they don't have a heartbeat. Or no, not 20, no, 20 days, sorry, excuse me, whatever it's. But um, I think that's inaccurate now, but um this is just the kind of stuff that I believed, you know, because I was pretty much atheist at that point. So, you know, I thought religion was uh for the weak minded, and so I didn't really think anything of it. I was like, all right, well, she got an abortion, broke my heart a little bit, but we'll just get through it. Just you know, I was always just stuffing emotions down, stuffing and stuffing and stuffing it all down, you know. And then I watched her go through so many hormonal changes and rage and emotions of crying and sadness, and just that really affected her. Um, I'm sure she probably regrets that to this day, and I I hope she's found forgiveness for herself. Um because uh I really just witnessed like something that was just horrible for someone to go through. And she was never really the same after that. And then so after that, I got another girl pregnant, not too far after, maybe six months, a year, maybe, because the relationship just fell apart, and she um just there's a lot to talk about on a different podcast, probably, but it just didn't work out, right? So um the second one came around, I was like, oh, you know, look, it it's not that big a deal. Um, you know, I'll do whatever you want. But I kind of I kind of manipulated her to have an abortion without telling her to, you know. And so I had those in the back of my mind to where I thought God was punishing me. And and I share this um and and put my vulnerability out there to to others that have experienced this kind of stuff, that have done these things in life, and and I say this to you all that you know it's it's it's it's difficult, right? It's a difficult situation to be in. I understand. I've been there, okay? And it's a life. I see that now, and I understand that, and I greatly regret those things. I forgive myself, of course, but I do regret them. And so it was a huge relief to go through that with God. And I didn't even the funny thing is I didn't even know that it was like holding me back. Like I didn't realize that was like something even like there. It was such a blind spot, and God shined a big light on it. So going through that retreat for just that alone was just amazing, and it wasn't even about my marriage. I mean, the funny thing is it's not about my marriage, but it was at the same time, right? Because that's something in the background that was holding my heart back and impacting me, and I didn't even know it. Wow, thank you for sharing, honey. So let's talk about the conception of our beautiful well, that's when it leads us to with that being said, now um just Just kind of lay the groundwork that very weekend, we're like 99.9% sure that's when we conceived Genesee. That that right after that. And it was such such a cool thing because a huge burden had been lifted. And it's like God was like, okay, now you're ready to be, now you're ready. And um we leave the beautiful weekend with uh over there in Colorado Springs. We're heading up to, as some of you will know, Genesee Mountain. Yes, and on the way to Genesee Mountain, I had the thought, I said, if I'm pregnant right now, Genesee is a perfect name for a baby girl. And I looked up the meaning, it means beautiful, pleasant valley. And we got it from Genesee Mountain, so a mountain and a valley, and then it was similar to Genesis, which is the beginning. So this was the beginning of our family. And the coolest part is that the room that we were staying in in the Glenary Castle was the king's suite. So we literally went up a spiral staircase to the highest room of the tallest tower, and we had a beautiful 180-degree view of the mountains surrounding us. So it literally was the most perfect groundwork setting to conceive a princess of the land. Oh well, that was the one of the funniest things when we first get there because we booked it last minute, and the description of the room was very, very generic. I mean, it was so generic, I had no idea what we booked. It was just like a suite or something, you know. But we get there, like, oh, you have this room. We're like, all right, cool. All right, what's the big deal? We go up, we take uh we take an elevator to one floor, then we take another staircase up to the second, this third or fourth floor, and then there's like this other door we go up another like half spiral to this and that and the other. Almost like we were like in a fire escape at this point. We're going up to the room, and like boom, we get up to it, like, oh, this is really cool. It's like a circular room. And uh had a huge fire, so I guess for heating back then or whatever, there's this huge fireplace you actually sit in and uh burn the wood to keep warm if you need to during the winter. It was amazing. Yeah, it was right there in the so if you ever look at the Glen Erie Castle, you'll see that circular stack that we're talking about, and at the very top, or like there's like the the top of the building. Actually, I'll make it the uh cover photo of this podcast so it'll be a nice visual to have. So when we did find out that we were pregnant very soon afterwards, um, which would have made her conception date 7-Eleven. So 7-Eleven, every time it comes around, um, it's always a very special day for us and her. And we didn't know if we were having a girl or a boy. We kept it a secret and uh we didn't find out. So when, and I wanted you to have the honors of declaring if it was a girl or boy, that was very important to me. I made sure everyone around me knew. I said, when the baby comes out, make sure no one else says a word. I want daddy to be the one to say if it's a girl or a boy. So when you saw her come out and you saw that it was a girl and you made that declaration, what were the feelings that came over you? Well, that was a whole funny thing to begin with, that whole birth. I mean, you know, the 24 hours at home and then leading to the hospital, and and I mean, you had just you've been going through like, you know, contractions and and like in the middle of all of it, you're like, I want Josh to, you know, the the name the sex to baby. I'm like, this woman's like amazing. Like, here she is going through all this, and she's worried about me now at this point, like announcing our child. And so, um it had been 39, 36 hours or something like that, probably total from that point. 29. And um, and so Genesee comes out, and I'm trying to look around, see, I wasn't sure. And then it was a baby girl. And at first, I'll be honest, at first it's like got a little bit disappointed that I thought it wasn't a boy, but we thought it was a boy going into it that way. She was carrying and this and that, everybody's like, Oh, you're having a boy. We thought we were having a boy, blah blah blah blah blah. And so, but for a split second I felt that way, but then boom, my heart just opened up. And um I think it's just I mean, that's just one of the things that has impacted me so much in life is to have my baby girl. I wouldn't change it for a second. Um it's really just softened my heart in a way that I just never would have thought that I'd experience. And having children is just one of the biggest blessings um in the world. And so yeah, I have a baby girl, she came out and so cute. And um I remember the first Father's Day, which was just a couple months after, and I dressed her up in the cutest little pink and white outfit, and it said, Happy first Father's Day, Daddy. Oh man, I I lost it. I just started crying, it's the best little cute little outfit. And you didn't even really want kids before I uh we got together. No, I really, and it's funny they're talking about those abortions, right? Like, I didn't even at those times, like before that or even during, I didn't I didn't really have a desire to have kids. I just um I was like, yeah, they always just kind of annoyed me. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand why parents like did so much for their kids and like you know, enabled them or whatever, um but do so much for them. Like, why just you just do whatever you control it all, you know? But now looking in hindsight, it's like now I get it. You know, now it's like wow, I mean it's the best thing ever. Anybody that's on the fence about kids, I know obviously there's circumstances in life that maybe you know prohibit you at this very moment, but I just want to invite you to a part of your life and something that will transform you in a beautiful way. Um, if you allow it to really change you forever in a good way, like where your heart is just open and full. I can attest to that. I mean, there's for me, it's like B C A D. Like there is a moment right before I delivered, like I knew this is the last moment, it's just gonna be my husband and I. It's the last moment, it's just gonna be Josh and I. From here on out, I will be a mother no matter what. And before, like there's you know, there's lots of ways we live like a very self-centered life. But yeah, I was self-centered and selfish and you know, about my own stuff and really concerned about all these things that didn't matter. But now with children, I know I'm a different human. I am I'm a virtuous woman. I put my you know, children and my husband before my own needs, and everything that it says about Proverbs 31, woman, I feel like I've embodied and you as well, because the Bible talks about that children are a crown, children are arrows in your quiver, children are shoots around your table. How have how has having now three children done that for you? That's like a whole different podcast of its own, right? But um, yeah, I want to shine the light on something too. Here is um, you know, in life we're separated at birth, right, from our from our soulmate. Um that's like uh in Jewish tradition, that's why they break the glass. The breaking of the glass is the breaking of the soul into two pieces and coming back as one when you get married, right? So um through life, it's interesting as you grow up, you're an individual. Like I was Josh going through life by myself, an island. And once you get married, you now have to expand your world. And it's not just about you, it's now about you and your wife. You're coming together as one, being unified, you know, and that looks like many things, you know. Like for us, and then there's no judgment, just for us, what we found and what really brings us together is having, you know, we have one bank account, um, we have all our credit cards, we just everything is together, you know, there's nothing that's separate. And so um it makes it easy, um, and challenging it ways when I see money go out, but uh I'm just being playful. Um but at the end of the day, you know, it's it's it's nice to just make it simple. There's no question about who gets this or that or what. Yeah. And he had to break that out of me because whenever I would say I, he's like, no, it's we. It's we. Well, yeah, because it's it's important to kind of keep that distinction in mind, you know, it's not just you anymore. So and I know a lot of us in marriage, especially early in marriage, you know, we're we're still kind of tied to our identity in ways. And so, you know, I just invite you to look at that, you know, make it more about you've expanded your world now. And so the same thing goes for for children. As you now have children, well, your world expands even more. And as you get more and more children, it expands more and more and more. So now we have three kids, three beautiful children, Genesee, Gideon, and now Eliana's home. What would you say to the um couple that already has two children, one of each, a boy and a girl? What would you say to those couples that are you know cautious or uh worried about expanding further? And what and how have we expanded? And what has that result been in our family introducing Eliana? Um I mean, look, our our identity is gonna show up in many ways, and so I feel like it's a a lot of times it's just an internal fear that we have. Um probably the devil just trying to hold us back from going forth and multiplying as we've been instructed by God to grow. And and um, it's a little scary at first. You have one kid and then the second one, and I feel like the second one was not quite a one-to-one multiplier, it was like uh it was quite exponential. Um, with the load of uh now two kids, you know, changing diapers and feeding them, and uh um he's just funny right now, he's playing around with mommy, but um there's always things that try to stop us in life, right? And so I just encourage people to kind of push through that, you know. Um, and this children are are such a blessing, and I've seen God's blessings rain down on us more and more as we've taken this journey, you know, with tithing, uh the blessings he says, test me on tithing. You know, we've tested him on tithing, and and uh I'm not gonna go into that today, but that's a whole different thing itself. And so uh children is is kind of similar in that sense that you know God wants to bless us, he wants to see us thrive and to go forth and multiply in always, not just monetarily, not just in in things, material things, but you know, family, love, connection, children, you know, because that's our mark on the world. That's the way we're gonna leave a legacy, and to leave our mark is is to to guide these children. We've seen so many uh elderly people who are dying alone, and it's heartbreaking. Yeah. Um yeah, and that could be for various reasons, but yeah, a lot of times we have we have some dear friends that have expressed to us, and and um, you know, they regret if it's just one kid, uh, they should add more, they really wanted more if they didn't, or look, people when people ask us how many children we want, what's the answer we give every single time? Say again when people ask us how many children do you want? Oh, the same answer we give every time is it's getting scarier and scary to say as we have now three kids. Like, as many as God will give. And I see keep saying, as many as God will give. And then they try to say something like, Well, what if that means 10 kids? I'm like, as long as God wills it, I'm game. Because I found that the more children we have, the more fulfilling and fun and adventurous and prosperous our life seems to get. Yeah. And let's talk about prosperity. You know, you and I, when we first got together, neither one of us had much to show for our, you know, neither one of us had much in our own personal bank accounts. Like it was very nominal. And um, what happened after we started working together? Yeah, I mean, at the time I met you, I was maybe making 20, I had a salary of like $2,400 a month plus some commissions. I was managing the team, and so um, it was a relatively newer team that I was managing for uh the owner at the time. And so, you know, I was kind of scraping by. I wasn't, I mean, I was barely, barely treading above water. And so I can't speak for Maria, but you know, she was younger, so I can imagine she wasn't making too much money either. Yeah, I was a health and fitness coach making no more than 30,000 a year. Right. So and spending it way faster than that was coming in. What? You spend money? Yeah, I mean, you I know you wouldn't believe it, but yeah. Um so yeah, like just that alone um was kind of a turning point, transformative point for both of us, really. Like, I know you always talk about how um, you know, two horses, uh that whole um scientific uh yeah, like one horse can pull 7,000 pounds, two horses working together untrained can pull 14,000 pounds, and then once they are trained and pulling together, they can pull like 28,000 pounds. Basically, the story was saying that alone we can do X amount, but together we can pull over four times our weight. And or much more. Like in the Bible, it says one man can run against a hundred, two men can run against like ten thousand, something exponential. And um, I've personally found that you and I working together has been a force to reckon with. Yeah, our income is like quadrupled that first year basically. Um actually, I think pretty close to. So um, yeah, it was funny just getting together like that. And um, it's funny too, looking back, because I remember how stressed out I was too. Because like, here I am, engine TI, I barely have any money to pay my bills. And um Maria's just like gung ho. She's like, Yeah, we're gonna have our own team and this and I'm like, okay, well, let's wait until you know, towards the end of the year, we'll do a transition on January, blah, blah, blah. And Maria's like, okay. And then next thing I know, she runs right into James' office and tells us we're starting our own team. We walked right into the owner's office and said, Hey, I had this dream. I put all my heart to start the best home ever team, and this is what I want to do. And to my surprise, he said, You should do that. And he gave us the office right next to his. We put best home ever team on the door, and Josh and I started our new team together. And it's been, it's been just a beautiful ride. I mean, together we over the last years, we've sold over 220 homes, and we have been working with investors and first-time homebuyers and second-time homebuyers and everything in between. And it's just been a wild, beautiful, fun, adventurous ride where we don't put money as the center or the goal, but we put God, you know, God's will. What is God's will for these people looking to buy, sell, rent, and invest in real estate? And it's um, it's just beautiful being part of their story while we are, and we have so many God stories. That's a whole other conversation in itself. Oh, yeah. Well, and to speak to that real quick, it's like I remember just now I'm like super scared and panicked. I'm like, dude, how like how could you do that? This is like our I have this this income. Like, how you know, how are we gonna live? What are we gonna do? Like, had no path, no clear vision to it. It was strictly on faith. Uh, fear and faith. Like, I was just like anxious, man. I had anxiety and fear around that, like you wouldn't believe. And so I share that because I'm sure, again, nobody can relate to that out there um listening. And so, you know, we face fear. Um, there's been so many times that we face fear and uncertainty in life, and um it's okay. It's okay, you know, you're gonna have that fear, it's gonna bump you up and keep you back, and that's what the devil wants. The devil wants you to be in fear and to stay still. Yeah, and let's talk about the biblical examples. I mean, how much fear do you think Moses had going against Pharaoh, the most powerful political ruler in the world, and telling him to let God's people go? Our son just picked up a sword and is sounding the battle cry. What do you want to tell the world, Gideon? He's wielding his sword. But um, this has been such a fantastic conversation, Josh. Thank you for finally agreeing to come on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, in full transparency, it's just it's just been so easy for me historically to record podcasts um in the middle of the night or the wee hours of the morning or in the car. So um going forward, I want to be much more intentional to making the time to have conversations together because you're in my personal conversations that we have. I mean they're valuable for the world. So on that note, Josh, would you like to send off the crowd with a nice prayer? Uh yeah, um, before we, you know, part ways here, I just want to say, you know, um, you know, we're doing this to share our story, right? And I'm sure it's gonna impact many people. I hope it does, or even if it's just one person, you know, we're here for you guys. Don't ever be afraid to reach out to us. Um, we're gonna do a lot more of these podcasts, kind of sharing our our journey, because you know, sometimes people um you know think it's all sunshine and rainbows for us. Um that we're always just so happy all the time. But that's not true, you know, like social media is is only you know portrays a certain portion, but we go through trials and tribulations just like anybody else. You know, we've had our ups and downs financially. I mean, um we've made a lot of money, but we've also lost a lot of money. So um, you know, I say this just humbly to you all that you know, we love you guys and we're here for you, and we want to share our journey to hopefully encourage and inspire others to step out of that fear, um, you know, step out of that addiction, whatever it is, pornography, alcohol, you know, whatever addiction you have in life that you want to get rid of, you know, we're here for you. And God's here for you, right? And so I think it starts with even just look, I don't, it doesn't matter how religious, quote unquote, you are. I think when you start to really um look out and look for guidance, you know, it'll things will just start to fall in place. It won't happen right away, you know, just gradually. A little prayer, a little read of you know, Bible or eat night, whatever. Just meditation, even just exploring, asking for discernment and wisdom and guidance. Um will start to really move mountains. It just takes the faith of a mustard seed. And so um, Heavenly Father, we come before you. We pray that you give us wisdom and guidance and understanding and peace and love, and that we're able to guide others um to their on their journey and for their freedom to get free from the darkness and the devil and to step into the light, to have a life full of joy and happiness and abundance in all ways. In the name of Yeheshua Hamashiach, Jesus Christ, we pray. Amen. God bless you all. See you guys, love you, shine your light.